Can we honestly say that lines like "no heresy discovered" can honestly be applied to lines such as the ones below are not contrary to what Holy Mother Church teaches? Thanked by 2 G francis. While I think each of those texts is problematic, and would not use them, we should be a bit more prudent about throwing around the H-Bomb. The line from "For the Healing of the Nations" does not strike me as problematic. The line about "Rising again from ashes" is flowery poetic language.
I don't use the hymn because it's based on - nothing. But I would not call that line heresy. You can interpret that in a variety of ways, and that we "rise again" from ashes, through our lenten conversion, to "create ourselves anew" Really, you are not holier than the Pope and more Catholic than anyone in Rome.
In short, that's not how the Chuch really thinks. Of course anyone who points out this fact just gets labeled a "liberal" by your comrades. It is precisely this mindset that led one "traditional Catholic" to declare, with regards to Pope Francis, "We are praying for a short Pontificate. Because she, ostensibly, knows that the Pope is a heretic. Again, I'm not trying to bash you and I really appreciate your zeal for the Church and her liturgy.
Please keep that up! But honestly, please broaden your horizens a bit as well. Adam Wood February Posts: 6, For something to be "heresy," it has to mean something that is heretical. Yeah there's a difference between lyrics that can lead to confusion and misunderstanding and outright heresy.
The hymns you mention could all lead to confusion, which isn't a good thing, but heresy is a big scary word and we should be sure to use it only in legitimate in-your-face cases. I'll agree the third one is, at best, nonsensical, and maaaaybe the second. But the first one seems rather clearly against the scripture and the mission of the church.
Our mission is specifically to spread our creeds. I do agree with you on the first one and I suspect that is why the text has been changed in Worship IV and Gather whatever number they're up to.
G February Posts: 1, Thanks for bringing up the Ruth Duck text, Ben. I should add, I think she writes superb texts, and if I were also a Methodist I'd have no problem. Glad to hear that it has been changed in more recent editions, but that doesn't help those of us in parishes that won't be buying new hymnals any time soon, or with liturgy committees that insist "any text in the hymnal is de facto approved for our use by the diocese.
Save the Liturgy, Save the World! Ben, re: As a Fire Is Meant for Burning, your placing the words "[the mission of the church]" before "not to spread Duck's original text. The entirety of her first stanza is: As a fire is meant for burning With a bright and warming flame, So the church is meant for mission, Giving glory to God's name.
Not to preach our creeds or customs, But to build a bridge of care, We join hands across the nations, Finding neighbors ev'rywhere. Thanked by 1 MarkThompson. Again, I think you need to read the line that you consider to be problematic in context: All that kills abundant living, Let it from the earth be banned: Pride of status, race, or schooling, Dogmas that obscure your plan.
Thanked by 1 Ben Yanke. Again, as G said, that's all well and good that she revised it, but it seems to be a dodge of the original inquiry. What about the rest of the parishes who still have the old hymnals, and those who had to use them for years before the new books, under the impression that the imprimatur actually meant something. K, You are correct, I misread it, and my bracketed text was not correct.
But all the same, any line in a hymn telling Catholics not to "spread their creed" is very problematic. The Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men.
Ben, re: Ashes, I think the text is goofy. I voted that it not be included in Worship IV and it is not included. I hope that when the hymnal committee for Gather 4 meets in ten years or so, they will recognize the text's goofiness as well. In the meantime, let's remember that this is an OCP text. Perhaps the Archbishop of Portland will say, "Drop it.
Thanked by 1 Adam Wood. There are degrees of error: some statements are heresy, some are close to heresy, some are false without being heretical because they conflict with a truth other than dogma , some are misleading or prone to a false interpretation, and some apparent statements are nonsense combinations that mean nothing at all.
Thanked by 3 Adam Wood francis Jahaza. Some statements are heresy, some achieve heretical status, and some have heresy thrust upon 'em. Nuff said. All I know is that our priest told me that the "Ashes" text was the Pelagian heresy all over again, and to not ever use it. So I didn't, and I don't. We Byzantines are hardly Latin Traditionalists.
However, I would repeat that I have said if Pope Francis doesn't start taking security a little more seriously, he may not last long. Sing and clap your hands. You may even want to shout for joy or dance like King David! Even if you don't feel like singing, even if you feel a little silly, try it anyway! Take a few moments to recall all the wondrous things God has done in your life.
Think about the ways he has protected you, healed you, or shown you his love, and you'll find reason enough to open your mouth, raise your hands, and shout praises. What's the first word you associate with the name of Jesus' disciple, Thomas? Is it strong, courageous, gentle, fearless?
Or doubting? As we read the account of him struggling to believe that Jesus had risen from the dead, do we feel some empathy for him? Do we have times of doubt too? Thomas had walked alongside Jesus for three years and would have been as intimate with Him as the other disciples. Why then did he doubt the truth, when he knew and loved the Truth?
Thomas actually needs to be respected for his faith. His honest doubts always had a purpose. He was seeking the truth, open about his doubts, and very quick to believe when his questions were answered. I remember, as a new Christian, attending a Christian basics course.
With so many questions needing answers I went on it a second time, in order to understand the answers I'd received but hadn't understood the first time round! My vicar said to my husband, 'I'm so glad Gill came on the course twice, because she asked the questions others didn't dare to ask. It's OK to have periods when we struggle in our faith.
God won't love us any the less. It is in the struggle that we discover the truth, our faith is strengthened, and we, too, recognise Christ and say, 'My Lord and my God'. Why not find someone you trust and share your doubts, as you seek answers that will strengthen your faith? What, I wonder, do people think of when they hear our name? Ask God what He associates with yours I guarantee that God's word for us will no doubt be wonderful! It was then that Moses and the sons of Israel sang this song in honour of the Lord.
I once came home from a Saturday giving a consultation to find that my laptop was not with me. I became flustered as I had made a few stops on my way home and there was a chance I could have left it anywhere.
Tracing my steps, I thought the best chance was back in school. Saying a quick pray, I took a cab down. During the ride, I sought intercession from St Jude, the patron of lost and desperate cases. When I reached the table where I was having consultation, my laptop was there, untouched. The first thing I did was SMS my parents to tell them the good news; the next was checking my email.
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